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The climate chief, Marina Silva, has called on all nations to show the bravery needed to confront the imperative of a global fossil fuel phaseout, labeling the creation of a roadmap as an “moral” response to the climate crisis.

The minister stressed, however, that involvement in this endeavor would be optional and “self-determined” for interested governments.

This issue remains one of the most debated matters at the COP30 in the host country, with countries split over if and in what way such a strategy can be discussed. Hosting the event, the nation has adopted a balanced stance on what can be included on the formal schedule.

Silva expressed approval for the potential of a plan, without explicitly pledging the country to it. The minister remarked: “When we have a terrain that is very challenging, it is helpful that we have a map. But the guide does not force us to travel, or to advance.”

In an interview, the minister added: “The map is an answer to our scientific understanding [of the climate crisis]. It is an moral answer.”

Dozens of countries meeting in the host city for the UN climate summit, which is starting its next phase, are aiming to determine how a global phaseout of fossil fuels could be implemented. They hope to advance a landmark resolution reached two years ago at a previous UN summit to “transition away from fossil fuels.”

That commitment had no a timetable or specifics on the way it could be achieved, and even though it was adopted unanimously, some countries have since attempted to disavow the promise. Efforts last year to elaborate on its real-world implications were stymied by opposition from petrostates at another UN summit.

As a result, there was no reference of the transition away from fossil fuels in the outcome of COP29.

Because of this, Brazil has been wary of demands by some nations to place the transition on the agenda for COP30. But the minister has worked hard behind the scenes to make sure the pledge could be talked about at the summit apart from the official program.

She won over the nation's leader, and he gave public reference three times to the need to “move away from dependence on fossil fuels” at the global leaders' meeting that came before the conference, and at the start of the summit.

“The issue is something that we understand at some point had to be raised, because it is the only way to face the issue from the source,” Marina Silva explained. “We recognise that it is challenging, and we must not sell false hopes. Bringing up the topic is brave, and I wish [to see] this bravery from all, from producing nations and consumers.”

Brazil had not initiated the call for a phaseout, she said, because that had been initiated at the earlier summit. Instead, it was enabling the talks to take place in line with what certain nations wished. “We understand these subjects are delicate. We will give the opportunity to talk about it,” she added.

There is not enough time at the summit to create a detailed plan, a process the minister said could take a number of years because numerous countries confronted complicated challenges around reliance on fossil fuels, or wanted to use the revenue from selling fossil fuels to finance their development.

“The country raises the topic, because it is both a producer and consumer,” she noted. “But Brazil is unique, because Brazil, if it chooses to, does not have to depend on fossil fuels. We have to understand that there are some that rely on carbon energy in their economic systems and lack simple alternatives, and others where fossil fuels are the foundation of their economic structure.

“To be just is to be fair to all, but the fundamental, primordial justice is to avoid being unjust to the planet, because it is our shared home.”

If the pledge gains sufficient backing, COP30 could set up a platform in which the work of drawing up a strategy to the phaseout could begin.

The process would involve dialogue with all participating countries to the UN framework convention on climate change and guidelines for how the initiative would proceed, Silva said. “Once we have criteria, a management framework can be developed; after we have a plan, and establish protections to be able to establish trust in the process, I am confident that with these elements we can turn good ideas into actions that are more defined, and more concrete.”

It is uncertain that a proposal to start developing a plan would be accepted at COP30, although it may not need the official approval of the summit, which operates by consensus and can be hijacked by special interests. Climate analysts have indicated they believe there could be backing for such a idea from about sixty nations, but there are believed to be at least forty against. A total of one hundred ninety-five nations represented at the talks.

“In spite of being the primary source of climate change, carbon-based energy are about the most divisive subject there is within the UN negotiations, so to see a chunky group of countries openly supporting a route to achieving global transition is in itself pretty groundbreaking.”

“In simple terms, there’s no path to a planet where warming remains below 1.5C in which nations aren’t able to talk about fossil fuel phaseout.”

“We need this wording for real in this discussion. It’s highly illogical that we talk about all topics but that when the main issue are the real problem.”

Discussions carried on on Saturday on four unresolved issues that have not yet been included into the formal schedule: commerce, transparency, finance and how to address the gap between the carbon reduction countries have proposed and those required to keep to the 1.5-degree warming target.

A summit president pledged a “document” that would address these matters, after discussions – which have been going on since the start of the week – were inconclusive. He called on countries to embrace the “mutirão” spirit, referring to one of collaboration and positive dialogue.

Progress on additional substantive topics – including adaptation to the impacts of the climate emergency, the just transition for those impacted by the transition to a low-carbon economic system and how to strengthen institutional capacity in less developed nations – carried on constructively, the host said.

Brazil’s chief negotiator said the technical phase of the COP proceedings was nearing the end, and the high-level phase – when government leaders who have the authority to change their nations' stances arrive – was starting.